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Ford Authority

Ford Pro CEO Says LFP Batteries Will Be 10 Percent Cheaper

As Ford Authority reported last year, some Blue Oval EVs will soon trade their lithium-ion battery packs for lithium-iron phosphate units, which don’t use nickel or cobalt in their construction and are generally cheaper, safer, and can be charged to 100 percent without worrying about speeding up battery degradation, though they’re also not as energy dense as lithium-ion batteries. However, it was previously unclear just how much cheaper Ford’s LFP batteries will be when compared to traditional lithium-ion units, at least until now.

“The battery process, later this year, next year, we’re launching LFP onto the Mustang Mach-E, and the the Lightning,” said Ford Pro CEO Ted Cannis while speaking at the recent Evercore Utility Conference. “Roughly 10-to-15 percent less cost. Not as dense chemistry, but allows for more more durability, more cycles, so it looks like a good solution for those customers who are not looking for all the density and longer range of NCM. That’s a big opportunity.”

As Ford Authority previously reported, the Ford Mustang Mach-E is set to receive LFP battery packs starting in 2023, while the Ford F-150 Lightning will follow in 2024. FoMoCo’s other EV – the E-Transit – will continue to be sold with a lithium-ion battery pack for the foreseeable future, however. The automaker plans on producing 270,000 Mach-E crossovers and 150,000 F-150 Lightning pickups in 2023, and this particular switch will reportedly enable it to reach that goal. Additionally, the automaker expects to continue utilizing LFP packs into the next decade.

The lower costs of LFP batteries makes them quite attractive in light of the skyrocketing costs of raw materials over the past several months, including lithium, which tripled in price over the past year to reach a new all-time high last October. As a result, the F-150 Lightning has received multiple price increases over that same time frame, as has the Mustang Mach-E.

We’ll have more on Ford’s decision to switch to LFP batteries soon, so be sure and subscribe to Ford Authority for ongoing Ford news coverage.

Brett's lost track of all the Fords he's owned over the years and how much he's spent modifying them, but his current money pits include an S550 Mustang and 13th gen F-150.

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Comments

  1. Bill

    10 percent cheaper? Does that mean $5000 price reduction?

    Reply
  2. B Smith

    Ok, more bologna for us to digest. If you have been following any of the EV space, you’ll know that the CEO’s and others boast about the 30% labor savings in the assy process. I am careful to realize that labor is just one component of the entire car mfg process. So give us 15% labor save and let that flow to bottom line. Instead, what has happened? Price has gone up. Now we are hearing a new battery type will save 10% (of battery component cost), OK.. how about slipping us 5% of that- give us something we can see. At the end of the day, this electric vehicle thing is a big science experiment with the consumer as the testing ground.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      That’s not how things work. You should know better than that.

      You are cherry picking savings but not accounting for other expense increases.

      You are taking forward looking projections and trying to apply them now.

      Your approach is not realistic or fair.

      The savings will come as companies reach scale, the offerings and market start to become saturated, and then start to compete on price again.

      We are not at that point for probably 5 years, although Tesla desperate to grow and hold share, has begun pulling price competition forward.

      Reply
  3. George

    That means a 10% markup on price, doesn’t it?

    Reply
  4. RandyM

    So what is 10% off of $28,000? Already seen a few invoices from dealers posted by customers that showed over $26k for a battery replacement at only 8 years. They really think Americans are going to pay the price of a brand new Toyota RAV4 every 8-10 years LOL

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      Oh Randy with the misleading info.

      Minimum industry battery warranties are around 70% original capacity at 8y/100k miles (some are 75% or 150k miles). This duty cycle represents 12.5k miles/year, well within normal usage.

      Even at 8y, 70% still means you have a couple hundred miles between charges in your 100k miles car, so on average you may need to top up more frequently but it likely won’t impact your daily drive.

      So who is replacing all those batteries that Randall claims to have seen invoices for? If they exist (and they probably do, but not to the extent that Randall is trying to portray) it’s folks driving way above the norm.

      The real LoL is Randall equating the battery cost to a RAV4, when the correct comparator is a like for like replacement.

      Bad faith commentary is easy to refute because the more extreme it is the more it departs from fact and becomes just stupid.

      Reply
  5. Jackson

    Right now Tesla offers the cheapest replacement cost for a new battery….$22,500. And it needs to be replaced by at least the 10 year mark. No thank you. Not a surprise EVs are failing.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      Oh, Jackson is a new mini me bot here to amp up Randy’s comment.

      Pray tell dear Jackson, why are you claiming the batteries need to be replaced at the 10 year mark? (So the car has 70% of original capacity.

      And so what anyway? It’s a 10 year old car, with 150k miles in the clock, so it’s pretty likely on its second owner and used as a second car. (And even if not and the owner wants to keep it, that battery replacement looks pretty cheap in comparison to a brand new car of the same class.)

      Reply
  6. Old Ford Guy

    Maybe people are pining for the “good old days” of the 50s and 60s, where your ICE needed an oil change every 2,000 miles; a tune up every 5,000; piston rings and valves every 20,000? Back then, 50,000 miles was end-of-life for most cars. (Not necessarily just because of the ICE, but the body rusted away, doors wouldn’t close and the suspension fell off.) People would complain about having to spend $1000 to replace the engine on their $2,000 car after only 8 years.

    I don’t disagree that battery life and range anxiety are a real part of owning an EV. But history shows that technology marches on and these problems will be either be solved, or supplanted with another technology. For example, in 1955 in the USA, steam locomotives were still being built. By 1965, 99% of the in-service steam locomotives had been replaced by diesel electrics. Steam was gone in 10 years, after 150 years of common usage . (25% diesel thermal efficiency versus 5% for steam was a BIG carrot and made the upheaval worthwhile.)

    BEVs, or other things, are coming, boys and girls. Tough to swallow, I know. But things are going to change in the personal transportation business. Embrace the fun to watch it happen.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      Great comment OFG!

      LoL, folks who probably never lived it simplistically pining for the good old days that never really were.

      I loved using a feeler gauge to check the plugs and set points, (as part of a proper PP&C change) and painting the timing mark and the edges adjacent to the slot in the torsional vibration damper white and then using my timing light to set spark advance on my folks’ cars in the 70’s.

      Enjoyed using the feelers to set the valves on the 1.6L Kent in my ‘80 Fiesta too.

      But except for my old Pony car, I wouldn’t want to do those or the oil changes any more.

      If I never see battery tray or terminal corrosion from a Pb acid battery again it will be too soon. The thunk of a tired cardan joint or slow shift of a tired slush box won’t be missed either.

      Great analogy of steam to dieselification. Same held true for the demise of transatlantic ocean liners (briefly) by 4 engine radial airliners like the Constellation which were even more quickly supplanted in the ocean liner coup by the jet 707.

      Rail purists decried the end of steam, as some sailors decried steam replacing the sail, as purists and snobs later decried the death of Blue Riband class ships at the hands of affordable democratized commercial air travel.

      Obviously the purists and the snobs after all their pearl clutching and tut tutting, abandoning”civilized transport” and chose to fly over the ocean, else we’d still have that mode of crossing.

      In many ways they just remind me of my grandmother born at the end of the 19th C, who decried was an early adopter of the Model T m, but in late life decried the touch tone phone and microwaves until she got one of each.

      Reply
  7. Bob

    Great, 10% less! But then again, I need 20% more battery, or I’ve got 20% less range.
    Let’s all circle back at the end of the year and check those production numbers. Where can I place that bet?

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      You sound much like the guy who bet on the horse when Bertha Benz drove by.

      Reply
  8. Mike says...

    While I am always a little skeptical about claimed savings in advance, the fact remains that builders will continue to find ways/means to reduce costs…. weather or not they are passed on to the customer is the fuzzy part. More competition and more offerings are the only real hedge against soring retail prices.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      Agreed, what’s sure is that even though ICE is at the end of its development potential, BEV is essentially at the beginning.

      With all the investment and development going into cell design and chemistry as well as motor design, we will see significant improvements in the short and mid term (not unlike the first 1/2 century of ICE).

      As OEMs scale their design and manufacturing investments and output a competition for technical edge (to our benefit) will increase and as scale effects are achieved price competition will kick in (to our even greater benefit).

      Reply
  9. Jerry G.

    With EVs failing financially the cost will always get passed to us. They raised the price on the MachE and that piece of junk got dropped by Consumer Reports recently. My wife looked into EVs and said he’ll no when she saw the replacement cost of batteries, even at half price it is equivalent to a good used car.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      Jerry is deploying scripted FUD.

      Reply
  10. Bob

    Old Ford Guy you are pretty much right on, although today’s ICE vehicles can run 150k before a second wind, so that would be the current comparison. The issue that all us dinosaurs have is that, supposedly, we won’t have a choice, and that didn’t happen in your examples.
    Sure, in 25, 50, or 150 years EV or hydrogen will be the norm, but it won’t work for the majority of us by 2035 here in California. That arbitrary date picked by the corrupt fools in government is just goofy.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      Nobody had a choice of steam vs diesel and the dinosaurs will be extinct before the last ICE vehicle is.

      Hydrogen will never be the norm for passcar unless Big Oil succeeds in pushing this.

      Why won’t BEV by ‘35 work? There’s no reason it won’t or can’t. Just saying it won’t doesn’t make it true.

      As for arbitrary, the same nonsense thinking was displayed in the mid 60’s about air pumps and EGR for CA, then in the late 60’s about cats and lead free gas nation wide, then about CAFE and CARB regulations to push smog free air that (didn’t cause lung cancer), and lead free dirt (that didn’t cause permanent CNS damage and shaved IQ in kids that ingested it) and better fuel economy to reduce risk of OPEC retaliation.

      Same nonsense was said about Abe Ribicoff’s 1966 Motor Vehicle Safety Act (FMVSS), and Airbags, and de facto IIHS crash standards. But each of these, while representing a challenge to industry, were successfully implemented and achieved their initial and enhanced purposes, and represented the best of American leadership and ingenuity from vision to implementation.

      So it will be with BEV because America has been to this rodeo of the future many many times and when it finally rides, it always comes out a winner.

      Reply
  11. Kasen

    One of my work buddies talked his wife out of an EV due to the battery replacement cost. I’m doing the same right now, fortunately she is receptive.

    Reply
    1. RWFA

      New handle but more K-street bad faith scripted Big Oil FUD designed to dissuade female BEV intenders.

      Reply
  12. John

    Sure,shorten the range. I guess Ford hasn’t heard the term,”range anxiety” before. It’s a major stumbling block for many potential buyers.

    Reply
    1. Tigger

      Not to mention the extra weight.

      Reply
      1. Jane

        Even the transportation secretary was all over the news talking about how EVs are considerably heavier and all the problems and safety issues it creates.

        Reply
        1. RWFA

          Here’s another female name being used to amp up a previous commenter’s statement. It’s not as tightly coupled as usual but it serves the same purpose.

          Couldn’t find a video, of any of all that “Secretary all over the news” is it a K-street chimera, or can you post a link? (It has that definite feel tho of “all the analysts were talking about Ford’s 3Q results…” which misrepresented the nature of the final figure.)

          Reply

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